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New Guy: Electric Muscle Car


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Old 06-27-2008, 07:57 AM
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Default New Guy: Electric Muscle Car

Well,

Having always loved the look of American Muscle Cars, I am planning on converting this 71 Plymouth Duster. I figure it will be about 4500# after conversion. I won't say yet what my modest range and speed goals are I will be using it mainly for commuting and errands on basically flat ground.

I am a novice to EVs. What do you experienced people think I can achieve with a Warp9 at 144 volts using 6v batteries. Any opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I'm ready to begin the project.

Thanks,
Bruce



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Old 06-27-2008, 08:47 AM
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No offense meant, but , are you nuts!!!! you are going to take a serious value hit by converting a classic! Better to sell it as is, and build or buy an EV of your choice.


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Old 06-27-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mtngazer View Post
No offense meant, but , are you nuts!!!! you are going to take a serious value hit by converting a classic! Better to sell it as is, and build or buy an EV of your choice.
Yes mtngazer, I guess I am nuts. After all, I got interested in this EV stuff - and I want to have something different than everyone else. No offense taken.

The car is probably not worth as much as you must think. The collector car market has taken a serious hit for about the last year, and Mopar A-bodies were never the high dollar ones to begin with. Who knows, this conversion may actually ADD to its value.

Anyway, that is not really the point. I don't intend to sell it. I don't own it for its monetary worth. Similarly to the gentleman who owns the Electric DeLorian, this is a car I own because I enjoy having it. I consider it a work of American art - a symbol of a great time in our history. I think it would be cool to demonstrate it's old school looks and technology blended with some new ideas. AND, I could actually drive it cleanly and economically.

P.S. I don't expect the real Mopar and/or muscle car purists to like the idea much either.

Thanks for the response! Let's hear from some others. What's my range and speed likely to be?


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Old 06-27-2008, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MoparGarage View Post
Yes mtngazer, I guess I am nuts. After all, I got interested in this EV stuff - and I want to have something different than everyone else. No offense taken.

The car is probably not worth as much as you must think. The collector car market has taken a serious hit for about the last year, and Mopar A-bodies were never the high dollar ones to begin with. Who knows, this conversion may actually ADD to its value.

Anyway, that is not really the point. I don't intend to sell it. I don't own it for its monetary worth. Similarly to the gentleman who owns the Electric DeLorian, this is a car I own because I enjoy having it. I consider it a work of American art - a symbol of a great time in our history. I think it would be cool to demonstrate it's old school looks and technology blended with some new ideas. AND, I could actually drive it cleanly and economically.

P.S. I don't expect the real Mopar and/or muscle car purists to like the idea much either.

Thanks for the response! Let's hear from some others. What's my range and speed likely to be?
I am in a similar situation with an '88 5.0 Mustang. It is hella fast and a hoot to drive, but I prolly could not get $3k for it with 240,000 miles on the odo. This class of car offers some real advantages for an EV. I don't know about the Duster, but the GVW of the Mustang is over 4200 pounds. These cars have good brakes and heavy duty drivelines and suspensions for putting up the abuse generated by big torquey V8s. When you pull the engine and accessories. it pulls a LOT of weight out of the car. Parts availability is great and always will be, unlike some small imports. There are no airbags or chassis computers to deal with.

I am wrestling with motor and battery selection. On the table is the WARP11 vs siamesed Impulse9s. I like the simplicity of the WARP11, but the efficiency (range) definitely favors the short 9s. My target is 30 miles at 50% DoD, and I think I will get it. I have room for 150V worth of probably US Battery 1800XC, although I have not yet settled on a particular battery for sure.

One surprising thing to me is that lead used for higher pack voltage seems to impact range more than lead used for capacity when choosing a battery. Forget the 8V and 12V batteries though, they are just not up to the strain.
-enganear


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Old 06-27-2008, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by enganear View Post
This class of car offers some real advantages for an EV. I don't know about the Duster, but the GVW of the Mustang is over 4200 pounds. These cars have good brakes and heavy duty drivelines and suspensions for putting up the abuse generated by big torquey V8s. When you pull the engine and accessories. it pulls a LOT of weight out of the car. Parts availability is great and always will be, unlike some small imports. There are no airbags or chassis computers to deal with.
Exactly! I figure my Duster will weigh about 4500# incl batteries after conversion. The thing has really stiff after-market HD rear springs and it should handle the extra weight with no problem. I wanted to get the back end down a bit anyway

Another advantage for me is that I own several of these cars and have worked on, and am intimately familiar with every square inch of it. There will be no learning curve for me on the car itself, only on the EV components. No removed parts will be wasted either. They'll just go onto one of the other cars (well, someday).

I just have lots of questions and decisions to make as to how I want to do this conversion to achieve the desired results.


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Old 06-28-2008, 09:22 AM
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It should work. It will just be slow with no range.


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Old 06-28-2008, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Seafarer12 View Post
It should work. It will just be slow with no range.
Well, I'd be interested in hearing what you think WOULD work. I came on this forum because I thought I might learn something from experienced, helpful people instead of being discouraged by 2 out of 3 replies with no helpful information. Criticism CAN be constructive - or it can just be criticism.


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Old 06-29-2008, 02:51 PM
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Mopar
I like your idea, I am new to EVs and am looking for a donor vehicle to start my first conversion. I am reading and learning a lot and I think your idea will work. I thought this information was interesting comparison of Motors to ICEs
http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm
and more on the Warp Motors
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
The TransWarp 11 at 144 to 168 volts would get you gobs of torque and it looks like it could push your heavy car to 60 MPH easy. And you can get by without a transmission, you may need to change rear end gearing to get the most out of it, but that would be just like ICEs looking at your torque/RPM curve and determining your gearing from that.
As far as range that will depend on how you drive, the slower you go the farther you can go.
Again I am learning too so look at the links and see what you think.


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Old 06-29-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbotom View Post
Mopar
I like your idea, I am new to EVs and am looking for a donor vehicle to start my first conversion. I am reading and learning a lot and I think your idea will work. I thought this information was interesting comparison of Motors to ICEs
http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm
and more on the Warp Motors
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
The TransWarp 11 at 144 to 168 volts would get you gobs of torque and it looks like it could push your heavy car to 60 MPH easy. And you can get by without a transmission, you may need to change rear end gearing to get the most out of it, but that would be just like ICEs looking at your torque/RPM curve and determining your gearing from that.
As far as range that will depend on how you drive, the slower you go the farther you can go.
Again I am learning too so look at the links and see what you think.
Tom,

Excellent! Thank you for that Grassroots link. I had been on their site before but I did not see that comparison. It tells me that a Warp9 will do what I am after.

Maybe I miscalculated the total after-conversion weight that I mentioned above. The Duster is a fairly light vehicle. Surely lighter than a Chevy S-10 or Ford Ranger that everyone is converting. Many of these Dusters came with 6 cylinder engines.

I got a quote on an Advanced DC 9" & Curtis set-up from a well known supplier. They calculated that I could get 55-60 mph top speed with a range of 65 miles. I have since encountered a guy online that has converted basically the same car as mine with the Advanced DC using 120 volts. His real-world results were right at those calculations.

That would almost meet my goals. A range of 65 miles is great but I'd like to achieve a 75-80 mph top speed.

Now I have 2 questions if anyone can help:

At the same voltage, with the same controller, is the Warp9 more powerful than the Advanced DC fb1 4001A Motor?

How much would I gain over the above 120 volt results if I used 144 volts (or more)?

Again, thanks for any info,
Bruce


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Old 06-29-2008, 09:09 PM
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Bruce , That is a great idea to convert something so unique to the EV world as a Duster. Ya it would probably be slow and have a range of like 20 miles or so but who cares , you can cruise in your musclecar for free.
I am planning on converting my 1938 Chevy pickup to electric. Its not really a heavy truck at all and tons of room in the bed for batteries.
I hope you pull the trigger on this one.

Jerry


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